Curse

Gregos Nielsen · Apr 01, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Hi, here's a R/W hammer (no pet) build I created. Please give comments and constructive criticisms. Oh, also, I do not have the +30 attribute points yet, and I do not have all ranger skills or elite skills.

Hammer Mastery 11
Tactics 5
Expertise 7 +1 +1 Mask
Wilderness Survival 9 +1

Weapon: Sundering War Hammer of Fortitude max dmg 15%^50 HP +29 Armor penetration 10% (9%)
*Going to use Victo's Maul soon.

Troll Unguent - health regen
Lightning Reflexes - stance when attacking
Whirling Defenses - stance when lightning reflexes runs out
Dodge - stance when low on hp (fall back and use troll unguent)
Watch Yourself - use beginning of battle and whenever it recharges
Hammer Bash - use this first, then follow up with crushing blow
Crushing Blow - use after hammer bush
Irresistible Blow - use while hammer bash is gaining adren. and/or crushing blow is recharging.

What do you think? Thank you in advance for your input.

SnipiousMax · Apr 01, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

It's really important that you bring either Tiger's Fury, Flurry or Frenzy. That will increase your damage output considerably.

Gregos Nielsen · Apr 01, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Hmm, okay, well which skill do you think I could replace with Tiger's Fury? Also, why is your status and my own status set to "Banned"?

Rhedd · Apr 02, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Well... I play a Ranger, but I don't play a "Thumper", so maybe I'm missing the point, but I believe the only reason to do something so odd is to couple warrior hammer skills with ranger beastmaster skills.

Things like Ferocious Strike (good pet attack, gains energy and adrenaline) and Tiger's Fury (attack faster) are essential to the build, and the only reason to be a R/W instead of a W/R is so you can use Expertise to significantly reduce the cost of a primarily Ranger-based, Beastmaster-heavy, skill bar.

Your build basically seems to be a hammer warrior with ranger defenses thrown in, which you really wouldn't need all that badly anyway if you just played a Warrior primary and had better armor.

It's also an extremely defense-heavy build. You said you're going to use it primarily in PvE? Are you trying to solo? You might be able to survive pretty well (although those defensive skills have a short duration and looong recharge), but you aren't really doing nearly as much damage as you should be, and that'll just increase the time that you're getting pounded on.

Like I said, maybe I don't understand the theory exactly, but a Ranger "Thumper" seems to be a very specialized build that plays off of the interaction of a few skills, none of which you're using.

Sorry to sound kind of negative, but then, you did want feedback, right? ^_^

Of course, if it's just a case of wanting to play a melee character, but liking the appearance of a Ranger more than a Warrior, then I'm all for it! Snipious is still right, though, you need an attack speed boost with a hammer.

Oh, and if it says you're banned, then you obviously did something evil. Right? RIGHT??

Or... it could just be April Fool's Day. :P

knives · Apr 02, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

R/W
(When you get full attributes)
12 Hammer
10 + 3 + 1(mask)
8 + 1 Expertise

Ferocious Strike {E}
Charm Animal
Hammer Bash
Crushing Blow
Irresistible blow
Tigers Fury
Rez Sig (for pve) / Whirling Defence *
Call of Haste / Brutal Mauling / Disrupting Lunge / Comfort Animal *

If this is for pve, then I would bring comfort animal + whirling since sometimes your pet will die just out of randomness, and since you will be using it to help gain adrenaline along with doing damage, it really helps in long areas. I don't think whirling defence is needed, since you can send your pet in to draw aggro with a bow, but it might help in certain situations in which you are the target of attacks. If you choose not to take it I would take a beastmastery skill like brutal mauling or disrupting lunge to increase your damage output especially towards the end, or interrup skills like troll unguent, healing signet, chain lightning etc when your adr. isn't charged from hammer bash.

Another build that is sometimes used is Backbreaker {E} instead of ferocious, but thats up to peoples preference, and imo it takes too long to charge in order to be an effective "thumper".

Gregos Nielsen · Apr 02, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Hmm, well I tried to be a hammer beastmaster before and I seemed to die much more than when using the skills right now. But perhaps it was because I wasn't using the right skills. I sort of feel hesitant to bring a pet along if it is only going to use one offensive skill and does minor damage without it. Also, don't superior runes subtract 75 HP, or is there a skill in that modified build that will make up for it? And since this build will be used for PvE, shouldn't I bring along a self-heal in case the monks' hands are tied or are dead? Finally, why is Tiger's Fury better than Lightning Reflexes when lightning does not disable your non-attack skills for 5 seconds?

Oh, and can someone link me to the beastmastery guide by Jenosavel (I think that was who compiled it,) please? I searched for it, but I can't seem to find it.

Thanks a lot, and sorry if I asked too many questions!

SnipiousMax · Apr 02, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

To be honest, I'd drop Troll Ungent and Lightning Reflexes. Troll is not a very good self heal for a front line character, and Lightning Reflexes recharge is a bit long. I'd take all your points out of WS and put them in tactics. I think you only need maybe 5 points in Beastmastery (I wouldn't bring a pet unless you felt comfortable doing so, and wanted to invest a large number of points in BM). So you'd have:

1. Hammer Bash (I like putting attack skills first!

)
2. Crushing blow
3. Irresistible Blow
4. Tiger's Fury
5. Dodge
6. Whirling Defense
7. Heal Sig
8. Rez Sig.

With points in:

Beast Mastery: 5 (about)
Expertise: 9
Hammer: Majority of your points
Tactics: Rest of your points

You could trade Whirling Defense for Throw Dirt if you felt so inclined, but I'd stick with WD for now.

I'm not sure how the point distribution would work out w/o the two attribute quests, so you need to get those quest's when you can.

And here's that pet guide:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ide-id1575.php

knives · Apr 02, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregos Nielsen

Hmm, well I tried to be a hammer beastmaster before and I seemed to die much more than when using the skills right now. But perhaps it was because I wasn't using the right skills. I sort of feel hesitant to bring a pet along if it is only going to use one offensive skill and does minor damage without it. Also, don't superior runes subtract 75 HP, or is there a skill in that modified build that will make up for it? And since this build will be used for PvE, shouldn't I bring along a self-heal in case the monks' hands are tied or are dead? Finally, why is Tiger's Fury better than Lightning Reflexes when lightning does not disable your non-attack skills for 5 seconds?

Oh, and can someone link me to the beastmastery guide by Jenosavel (I think that was who compiled it,) please? I searched for it, but I can't seem to find it.

Thanks a lot, and sorry if I asked too many questions!

The attack nets you back ENERGY, ADRENALINE, and DAMAGE. So I would say thats a pretty good investment. Yes the superior runes do subtract -75hp, but just use a sup vigor (or if you can't afford one/don't want to use one, use a major vigor, its like a 20hp difference), and you will have approximately 441 health, maybe more. You are using TF because the recharge is 10 seconds, compared to lightnings 45. Also TF lasts almost as long and is spammable which means you will be doing more damage.

If you are getting hurt, and your monks hands are tied up, they are either a) not very competent monks or b)you are taking time to heal yourself instead of taking the time to kill the monsters who are killing your team. There is no point in rezing someone if you are the only one alive surronded by lots of mobs. It would be more beneficial to just kill yourself and start from the rez point.

Also, how many NON attack skills do you really have room for in your bar? If you are just using stances, it would just be easier to be a w/r and tank. Its a THUMPER for a reason, not b/c it just evades everything, but can constantly knockdown things due to the high intake of adrenaline and the cheap cost of hammer skills due to expertise.

Rhedd · Apr 02, 2006, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Knives is right about Ferocious Strike. Every time you use it (every 8 seconds), your pet gives you a hit of adrenaline, TEN energy, and does a substantial amount of extra damage, too. Not bad.

See, the thing about thumpers using pets is that Ferocious Strike and Tiger's Fury are Beastmaster skills, so you might as well use other skills from that line, too, since you REALLY want Tiger's Fury.

Why, you asked? Knives is right, the reason Fury is WAAY better than Lightning Reflexes is simple; You can use Reflexes for what, eight seconds? Ten seconds max. Then the recharge is fourty-five seconds. If things are hot, that's an eternity. I've had whole arena fights that were over in only twice that time.

Tiger's Fury, on the other hand, has a recharge that's no longer than it's duration (at max, 10 seconds). At a mere 5 energy a pop (Remember, you should be getting 10 energy every 8 seconds from Ferocious Strike!) you can keep Tiger's Fury up constantly. ALL the time.

The disabled non-attack skills isn't nearly as bad as it seems. What are you doing instead of attacking, anyway? If you need to heal, it'll only be a second or two before you can. Very seldom a life-threatening deal, and well worth it.

Basically, Tiger's Fury is a good enough skill to make some Warriors want to be half-ranger, just for that one alone.

I tend to agree with Snipious when it comes to Troll Ungent. It seems good, but I dropped it as soon as I could in favor of being a secondary monk. Sure, you aren't going to do this, and Troll Ungent seems like the best heal you've got, but you should still realize why it's not as good as it looks on paper; That 3 second cast time is a KILLER. It makes it just child's play to interrupt. Even an NPC dwarf won't let you get it off if he's in arm's-reach. Not only that, but even if you aren't getting interrupted, that's three whole seconds you aren't doing any damage whatsoever, because you're busy casting. That's really a long time to waste in combat.

I don't know, but I think if you're going to have a few points in tactics, a Healing Sig might actually be a much better choice.

Anyway, everyone has their own opinions about the skills in the game, and these are mine (today ^_^). Yours might vary with experience, but it's always good to hear other opinions, because they might make you see something you otherwise would've overlooked.

Oh, and Superior Runes are actually worth the -75hp, most of the time.
And use a Major Vigor, unless you're loaded with cash. The difference between it and a Superior isn't even 20 points... it's 9. :P

suiraCLAW · Apr 02, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Why no counter blow? In PvE everybody is attacking anyway...

Gregos Nielsen · Apr 02, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Hmm, okay, thanks guys. I think I am going to use knives' build, but maybe add in a Healing Sig and bring Comfort Animal. Would it be too much to spread atrribute points over 4 attributes? Oh, and which one is better, Comfort Animal or Revive Animal? Oh! And also, I don't have ferocious strike capped yet, so what do you think I can replace it with? I'll be capping it soon, I guess.

Rhedd · Apr 02, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Comfort is better, usually.

Ignoring the healing altogether (which is kind of minimal), Comfort will res your pet almost instantly, while his corpse is MILES away.

Revive doesn't disable your skills, and it allows you to res OTHER people's pets, but you have to be practically standing on the corpses, and the casting time is nearly as long as Comfort disables your skills for. ^_^

Revive is really only useful in a PvE group with tons of Beastmasters. One guy can bring it and save the other rangers the slots they'd fill with Comfort. At least, that's the only use I can think of for it.

I can't really say what you should replace Ferocious Strike with. It really doesn't have an equivalent. You could replace it with a different attack skill, but then you'd run low on energy. You could replace it with an energy management skill, but you'd lose the damage and adrenaline. Really, I'd just say go cap it ASAP.

Here's where to find it:
http://www.xennon.co.uk/eliteskills/#ranger

My ranger has points in four attributes, and I don't find a problem with it.

Gregos Nielsen · Apr 02, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Cool, thanks a lot.

For now, I'm going to use Predator's Pounce since I don't have Copperhammer Mines yet. I barely at Droknar's ><.